Author Topic: Curious about Tail Docking  (Read 1417 times)

Offline Caro

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Curious about Tail Docking
« on: April 05, 2013, 10:33:11 PM »
Just a quick question to satisfy my curiosity.

I have noticed from many of the pictures posted on this site that many of your Mini's have docked tails.  Is that standard practice for most places such as the US or is it what you as new owners request (if you are buying a puppy)

Just curious as over here in the UK it was banned in 2007, except for certain working dogs.

Thanks
Jet, male black Miniature Schnauzer, born December 28, 2010. 
Jazz, female white Miniature Schnauzer, born March 14 2014

Offline Diana L

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Re: Just curious...
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 11:19:40 PM »
From what I have encountered, it is standard. We were unable to request a natural tail dog. They dock them very, very early on.
Lola, female B&S Miniature Schnauzer, born 7/11/2012
Bella, female S&P Miniature Schnauzer, 6 years old (living in TX with family)
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Offline Jojo

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Re: Just curious...
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2013, 04:19:00 AM »
Yeah Caro - it's illegal in Australia, ear cropping as well. It's a country to country thing I guess
Nixie, female black Standard Schnauzer, born December 16, 2012

Offline Peter

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Re: Just curious...
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 08:40:18 AM »
Caro,

The answer if pretty simple.

Cropped ears and docked tails were the standard look for Schnauzers, I believe all over the world. Though I'm not positive about that.

Anyway, as people (and laws) have moved away from cropping and docking, the U.S. is just lagging behind. We often do, for example allowing chemicals in our products that have been banned in other countries for years.

I would think that any breeder would be very happy to leave the ears uncropped (which is becoming very popular now) and even the tail undocked by request. The problem is that the tails are docked when the puppies are just a few days old. At this point the nerves haven't developed, and the puppies typically cry when you take them from their mothers and stop crying when you put them back.

So to get a puppy with an undocked tail, the breeder would have to decided that it is going to someone who wants the tail undocked just a couple days after birth.

If they don't know at that point, they would likely dock them because after that point the nerves are developed and it becomes an amputation.

We used to have a forum member that was a vet tech and she preached against tail docking, saying it was a painful, bloody process and she hated to hear the dogs screaming. But after much discussion with her and breeders I know, I  concluded that she was talking about docking the tails of older dogs, which I call amputation.

To me it's ironic that there's all this fuss about docking puppy tails and then the same people who object to it regularly let their groomers quick their dog's nails. Now THAT'S painful!

See:  Nail Quicking and How to Properly Trim Nails

Peter
Mukaluka Dirtypaws, male black Miniature Schnauzer, 11/09/07, 15-1/8", 17.5 lb (goal) [medical]
Pukalu, male S&P Miniature Schnauzer, 03/27/10, 15", 15.5 lb (goal) [medical]
Also: About Peter ~ Our Therapy Dog Work ~ Our Tricks Video ~ Muka's Scrapbook

Offline Caro

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Re: Curious about Tail Docking
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 01:19:03 PM »
Thanks Peter. I didn't realise tail were docked that young.

Which do you prefer the look of though? Schnauzers with full tails or with docked ones?  I have to say that with being used to Jet having his tail I find it strange seeing them with docked tails now.
Jet, male black Miniature Schnauzer, born December 28, 2010. 
Jazz, female white Miniature Schnauzer, born March 14 2014

Offline Jojo

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Re: Curious about Tail Docking
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2013, 03:12:42 AM »
I love the long waggy tail although it can be noisy when banging on the door!!  :thumbsup:
Nixie, female black Standard Schnauzer, born December 16, 2012

Offline Peter

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Re: Curious about Tail Docking
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2013, 07:58:48 AM »
I have to say that with being used to Jet having his tail I find it strange seeing them with docked tails now.

Exactly, I think it's the look you're used to.
Mukaluka Dirtypaws, male black Miniature Schnauzer, 11/09/07, 15-1/8", 17.5 lb (goal) [medical]
Pukalu, male S&P Miniature Schnauzer, 03/27/10, 15", 15.5 lb (goal) [medical]
Also: About Peter ~ Our Therapy Dog Work ~ Our Tricks Video ~ Muka's Scrapbook

Offline Pat & Cliff

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Re: Curious about Tail Docking
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2013, 06:58:35 PM »
I personally love natural ears and tails.  Tails continue to be docked in the US because dogs with undocked tails can't be shown.  Until that changes, it is unlikely to catch on as a movement.  It is all in what we are use to.  I never thought about tails much until our 1st Mini didn't have one.  Then I realized how much I watched them for an indication of what was going on with the dog.  Tails can be very expressive.

You will see, however, that our Jeremy has a docked tail.  It had already been done when we decided to get another dog and we didn't want to wait for a different litter.  I should also say, I think he's lovely as he is.
Thanks for being here, Pat and Her Boys:
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Chester Field (motley mix) 11 yrs and counting
Go Mi Nam (aka Jeremy) 6/09/12  Male B&S Miniature Schnauzer
Go Mi Nyu (aka Gemma) 1/20/14 Female B&S Miniature Schnauzer

Offline Alan

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Re: Curious about Tail Docking
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2013, 11:42:11 PM »
I'm almost embarassed to be digging up an old thread, but we just adopted a pup which has an undocked tail.. all by mistake! The lady we adopted from, her regular vet was away and so by the time the vet was back, it was too late to get the tail docked. Apparently the window is between 1-5 days after they are born. It so happened that we saw a schnauzer in a shop with an undocked tail and we thought "Hey, that's a very good looking dog!", and a couple of days later, we adopted Trixie... purely coincidental! :) All the schnauzers we've seen (in Singapore) have natural ears but docked tails.
Sophie, female S&P Miniature Schnauzer, born April 18, 2010
Trixie, female S&P Miniature Schnauzer, born April 16, 2013

Offline Peter

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Re: Curious about Tail Docking
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2013, 08:15:25 AM »
The only issue with docked tails I think is what you are used to. So if you are used to Schnauzers with docked tails, as we are in the U.S., undocked can look a bit different. But not so in Europe!

But whatever, you'll get used to what you have and it will become the norm for you!

BTW, I'd much rather members would "dig up" old topics than start new ones on the same subject!

Peter
Mukaluka Dirtypaws, male black Miniature Schnauzer, 11/09/07, 15-1/8", 17.5 lb (goal) [medical]
Pukalu, male S&P Miniature Schnauzer, 03/27/10, 15", 15.5 lb (goal) [medical]
Also: About Peter ~ Our Therapy Dog Work ~ Our Tricks Video ~ Muka's Scrapbook

Offline Pat & Cliff

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Re: Curious about Tail Docking
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2013, 12:43:56 PM »
At this point, docking your dog's tail is surgery.  Your vet can tell you about it, but it is a much bigger deal than at 2 days.  It bleeds and hurt and you have to watch for stitches being chewed out, however, it is doable if you desire.  I would probably just enjoy the tail and not bother.  Perhaps it could be done when Trixie is spayed.  That will give you some time to think about it.

I've now had a Schnauzer with a tail and several with docked tails.  It doesn't change the dog.
Thanks for being here, Pat and Her Boys:
One dog loving husband:  Cliff
Chester Field (motley mix) 11 yrs and counting
Go Mi Nam (aka Jeremy) 6/09/12  Male B&S Miniature Schnauzer
Go Mi Nyu (aka Gemma) 1/20/14 Female B&S Miniature Schnauzer

Offline Angie S

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Re: Curious about Tail Docking
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2013, 02:44:02 PM »
I'm against the ears completely. It's done later on and from what I understand extremely painful. I don't think it's cute either. The tails, either way. Like they all said above, it's usually done when they are 2-3 days old and don't feel it. I have come across some breeders that if you get on a list for their pups, they will leave it on at your request. For the most part, it's pretty standard though.
LaRoux, female S&P Miniature Schnauzer, born April 14, 2013
Nessie, female S&P Miniature Schnauzer, August 15, 2009 to April 16, 2013 R.I.P.

Offline Alan

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Re: Curious about Tail Docking
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2013, 03:01:18 PM »
Yeah, I know that it's gonna hurt which is why we decided really quickly that we want her with the tail :)
Sophie, female S&P Miniature Schnauzer, born April 18, 2010
Trixie, female S&P Miniature Schnauzer, born April 16, 2013

Offline Adam & Nichole

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Re: Curious about Tail Docking
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2013, 06:55:45 PM »
I def prefer their tails docked... but it's just what we are used to seeing in the US.  I am totally against cropping ears!  I think it makes the dog look more aggressive.  I like the sweet floppy ears that make them look more gentle!

 :star:  Nichole   :star:
Expresso Biscotti, black female Miniature Schnauzer 16 lbs (4-4-2010)
Amaretti, liver/tan parti female Toy Schnauzer 10 lbs (8-14-2012)
Milano, red stag Mini Pincher 4.5 lbs (5-2005)