Has your MS shown agression towards people?

[Mick]

Now THAT is a GREAT IDEA! 

[Mick]

For anyone who had followed this topic, here is an update:
   While having guests reward Dusty with treats showed some early promise, it didn't really change her behavior so our breeder recommended a trainer he works with for his show dogs. We spoke and attended one of her "handling" classes which is typically for those who plan to show their dogs. Even though her problem seems to be confined to our home, we thought the exposure to other owners was a good place to start. Also, part of the class consists of putting the smaller dogs up on a table for inspection just like at a dog show. This meant Dusty had to be touched/handled by the trainer and possibly others which might also help her to become more accustomed to being approached.
   One thing we stopped doing awhile ago was holding her in the company of others because we already know she's very possessive of us and will guard us if a stranger approaches too closely. The class before us was ending as we arrived and the entrance ramp into the building was narrow so I picked Dusty up before the big dogs exited since no one was nearby. Of course, the minute I picked her up a woman approached from behind and said she had heard all about Dusty. She asked if she could approach her. I told her to go slow since I was holding her. When she approached, Dusty snarled at her so she tried a treat and backed off when Dusty emitted a little growl.
   We expected this to be a real adventure at that point but she was really good in class and allowed the trainer to handle her any way she wanted while on the judging table. Next was showing my wife how to teach Dusty to walk on leash properly so she doesn't pull. Dusty showed quite a bit of progress by the end of class and before it was over, she allowed several other owners to approach her and give her a little chin tickle. It was very encouraging. The only problem is that this wonderful trainer's class is an hour drive each way and is on a work night so we had to look for regular trainer closer to home.
    Timing is everything and the next day our breeder called to say he just found out another trainer he holds in high regard is offering classes just down the road from us. We spoke to her and she said she only does handling classes (no obedience). Since our intention was to get Dusty into obedience class, she referred us to another trainer who specializes in terrier behavior. We attended our 1st obedience class last Friday and Dusty did well. Both Sue and her assistant were able to approach her on leash and she accepted treats from them without hesitation. Of course, she loved all of the dogs.
    We also had an in home session with Sue today so that she could assess Dusty's issues with guests visiting our home. She recommended keeping her on leash when someone enters so that we have complete control. When she arrived, Dusty was on leash and barked aggressively as Sue entered the house. After 90 minutes of observing her and interacting with her, she determined that Dusty is exhibiting fear aggression which is what I had thought after doing research of my own. She then explained what we needed to do to try to correct this behavior with the caveat that this may simply be her personality and that we may only be able to modify her behavior rather than "cure" her.
    We learned quite a bit today and have at least 7 more weeks of classes with Sue to discuss progress as we move forward. We were able to determine that it's not just Dusty whose behavior must change. To help her improve, there are things WE need to do differently in the way we handle her when company arrives. The socialization she'll get at obedience class should help desensitize her as well. Time will tell but we are encouraged now that an expert has given us her recommendation and a solid plan to follow. 
   

[Debbie]

Hi Mick, kudos to you and your wife and Dusty. It is just wonderful how much you and all of us love our dogs and want to do right by them.

So many people would just shrug it off and say.."Oh this is just the way our dog is" and not make any attempts to modify their behaviour. It is alot of work to raise and train a dog properly, most people are extremely lazy.

[Mick]

Thanks for the kind words Debbie. Dusty is part of the family so we have to give her every opportunity to overcome her "issues". No one ever said being a pet owner would be easy but it sure is worth the work!

[Peter]

Ditto to what Debbie said.

Thanks for the update. It may prove very helpful to others.

Peter

[Mick]

That's the idea. Share so that others may benefit. Thanks to Peter, we all have an outlet to do this.

[Peter]

Mick,

I shared your long post, above, with Muka's trainer. (Well, I train him with his tricks, but she's his obedience trainer.) She wrote a sort of reply and I wanted to share it with you.

However, it's important to understand that it was written "out of context" in that she didn't have access to this entire topic -- to the background -- only to your last post.

I don't want to take more of her time so I can't go back and forth between the two of you should you have questions, but I think you'll find it very interesting:

A couple things to consider when a dog is reactive is "Why?" and "What is the rewarding outcome?"  A dog will not repeat a behavior if it is not somehow rewarding.  What we think of as rewarding does not matter, it is in the DOGS head, not our own.
 
Here is what I saw that might be rewarding:  The dog reacted, was handed treats (a reward) and then moved away from 'the bad guy' (another reward).  So my concern is, what is the reward for being good?  My guess is that the 'bad guy' just keeps coming, which, is actually an aversive or a punishment for being good!!!
 
I'd reverse this pattern:  "Bad guy" approaches from a great distance and stops at a specific stop.  When the dog STOPS aggressing (or, best case, never starts aggressing in the first place) the 'bad guy' quietly goes away.  Repeat, repeat, repeat....  over and over and over and over.  Slowly, very slowly, the 'bad guy' gets closer and closer...   It is time consuming as we've inadvertently taught her this behavior so 'unteaching' will take time and trust.  
 
This is a modified version of a treatment called CAT for Dogs!  Constructional Aggressive Treatment (fear can still be seen as aggressive)..  An amazing treatment that will work and will teach both the dog and the owner how to better understand their behaviors!

Giving treats after the barking starts (if you did give them after the barking started) is certainly rewarding bad behavior, and I should have caught that myself! I actually describe a similar situation with whining in my training tip:

Don't Reward Bad Behavior - Do Reward Good Behavior

Peter

[Mick]

Hi Peter,
    Your trainer was very kind to take the time to give her advice but the problem is exactly as you said. She's getting the information out of context and only a bit of it at that. My post was purposely very condensed to avoid "writing a book". There was just so much I left out. Just to put your mind at ease, we aren't rewarding Dusty when she barks but after she's corrected and stops.
    The reason I brought a highly respected trainer to my home was to have her see with her own eyes what behavior Dusty was exhibiting, to evaluate her and determine how to proceed. Again, I really don't want to get into everything that was discussed or that we learned about her behavior and why she is reacting the way she does but rest assured, we've found the best people to help us work on this. I'm not trying to be elusive but it's just too much to write.
    I know you're intention was to offer another perspective and I appreciate that you would take the time to mention this to your trainer. I think she would approve of the way we're handling the situation if she knew the entire history and could have interacted with Dusty in person. Thanks for your concern Peter. It's nice to know we have a forum where everyone cares about each others pets.
 
   

[Peter]

Okay then, we will look forward to hearing how the problem was resolved!

As most dogs go, Muka has been pretty good at heeling for over a year now. But when there's a kid or other dog he's excited to greet, the leash goes taught. (He doesn't really pull.) I have been working on a new method of resolving this -- probably the sixth I've tried -- and I'm excited to share about it in my training tips. But I thought it best to wait and be sure it really works! LOL

The thing is, it had better work pretty soon or I'll never know if it worked. I think dogs generally get more complacent and heel better as they age. But we're clearly making progress. So we'll see!

Peter

[BennyBear]

It is alot of work to raise and train a dog properly, most people are extremely lazy.

and those same people have children and do the same thing with them!  LAZY!   Or they just don't care. Not sure which.   So many people should NOT reproduce!!!!

[Debbie]

It is alot of work to raise and train a dog properly, most people are extremely lazy.

and those same people have children and do the same thing with them!  LAZY!   Or they just don't care. Not sure which.   So many people should NOT reproduce!!!!

I SO agree with that.

[MicheleZ]

Well there are some families that could be considered a baby mill....

[Debbie]

Well there are some families that could be considered a baby mill....

Tell me about it, one of our bosses has 8 or 9 kids, I have lost track..we call him The Sperminator!

[Mick]

   Here's another update. Now that the weather is warming up, we've had a few people over who have entered through the fenced in portion of our back yard. Dusty doesn't bark at all or even pay much attention and after a while, will let a guest approach her. She's still a little standoffish at first with new guests but it's a big improvement and one that we hope will eventually give her more confidence when guests enter through the front door and into the house. Inside the house, Dusty is still a work in progress but is improving. Outside, she's just a normal dog. I think Obedience classes have helped re-socialize her with strangers as well.

   If we hit a wall with her inside behavior, we will give Peter's trainer friend's "CAT for dogs" method a try. We'll report back again before we switch gears from what has been working.
 Mick

[Peter]

I sometimes wonder if I'm really so good at training Muka, or if he's just maturing. I think age helps calm things down a bit, too.

For whatever reason, I'm glad things are improving!

Peter